As I see it, the cap is pretty useless. It might prevent you from maybe getting 10 tpe in a season. That's not all that much. I can see two options on how to improve on that.
Remove the cap and scale down the available tpe a bit. This prevents tpe inflation that a lot of people seem to be worried about and does away with the complexity the cap adds for players and updaters. This would basically create a cap without calling it so and without having to keep track of a certain type of tpe.
Keep the cap as it is, but increase the amount of capped tpe available to get. This would allow getting tpe through other tasks than writing or graphics. Increase the variety of tasks that give out tpe, so people can do the tasks, they like the most.
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02-27-2019, 10:20 AM.bojo Wrote: like tables said, removing it helps simplify things and people are saying it only prevents roughly 10 points anyway.
As long as the PT team pushes a consistent amount of tpe each season it should be fine.
And for the semi actives who the entire cap was implemented to help? Now if they miss out on a PT they are boned. If their player has a bad season they are boned. That is TPE they have no chance to recuperate because the actives have no ceiling to hit.
The circumstance of there being so little extra TPE past the cap falls on either the HO for raising the cap in the first place or the PT team for not providing enough PTs to make the cap really matter. Removing it entirely just screws over the very people it was meant to help.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
02-27-2019, 10:20 AM.bojo Wrote: like tables said, removing it helps simplify things and people are saying it only prevents roughly 10 points anyway.
As long as the PT team pushes a consistent amount of tpe each season it should be fine.
And for the semi actives who the entire cap was implemented to help? Now if they miss out on a PT they are boned. If their player has a bad season they are boned. That is TPE they have no chance to recuperate because the actives have no ceiling to hit.
The circumstance of there being so little extra TPE past the cap falls on either the HO for raising the cap in the first place or the PT team for not providing enough PTs to make the cap really matter. Removing it entirely just screws over the very people it was meant to help.
It's only limiting 10 tpe a season though. the biggest difference would be 100 tpe after 10 seasons.
02-27-2019, 10:35 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: And for the semi actives who the entire cap was implemented to help? Now if they miss out on a PT they are boned. If their player has a bad season they are boned. That is TPE they have no chance to recuperate because the actives have no ceiling to hit.
The circumstance of there being so little extra TPE past the cap falls on either the HO for raising the cap in the first place or the PT team for not providing enough PTs to make the cap really matter. Removing it entirely just screws over the very people it was meant to help.
It's only limiting 10 tpe a season though. the biggest difference would be 100 tpe after 10 seasons.
Assuming every semi-active hits the cap or can hit the cap.
10 is essentially the minimum disparity between actives and semi-actives (compared to what would be 0). If a semi-active only earns 35 out of the 40 capped TPE then that gets up to 15 (which would be compared to 5).
Again, if we actually want to make the cap matter then why would we not just drop it back down to 35? Or increase the number of PT opportunities?
Abolishing it entirely ignores the entire reason why we even had it.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
02-27-2019, 08:59 AM.bojo Wrote: I'll agree with removal only if there's a clear timeline of what points will be available a season.
This for me is key
Announce what the tpe target range will be each season and make that a rule . Then pt teams can coordinate and make desicions each season without fear of tpe creep over time .
E.g. from PT exercises there will be Y to X available to be earned each season.
Also people calling for the tpe cap to be lowered need to note that it actually might increase the disparity since the advantage gained be EQ and training will be relatively higher compared to free earned tpe.
02-27-2019, 10:47 AM.bojo Wrote: It's only limiting 10 tpe a season though. the biggest difference would be 100 tpe after 10 seasons.
Assuming every semi-active hits the cap or can hit the cap.
10 is essentially the minimum disparity between actives and semi-actives (compared to what would be 0). If a semi-active only earns 35 out of the 40 capped TPE then that gets up to 15 (which would be compared to 5).
Again, if we actually want to make the cap matter then why would we not just drop it back down to 35? Or increase the number of PT opportunities?
Abolishing it entirely ignores the entire reason why we even had it.
it's not about if the semi can hit the cap. the difference is still 10 tpe for the person who can go above 40. the active player would make 1500 instead of 1400 (just an example) after 10 seasons. the semi is still making the same progress he normally would. the only difference is that the active player can fight regression a little better.
which, would make even more sense if this is tied together with the regression ideas people have been throwing around.
It looks like there's a lot of debate in here but I think there's a lot of common ground on this statement: the TPE cap in its current state is ineffective with the amount of capped TPE available.
02-27-2019, 10:52 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: Assuming every semi-active hits the cap or can hit the cap.
10 is essentially the minimum disparity between actives and semi-actives (compared to what would be 0). If a semi-active only earns 35 out of the 40 capped TPE then that gets up to 15 (which would be compared to 5).
Again, if we actually want to make the cap matter then why would we not just drop it back down to 35? Or increase the number of PT opportunities?
Abolishing it entirely ignores the entire reason why we even had it.
it's not about if the semi can hit the cap. the difference is still 10 tpe for the person who can go above 40. the active player would make 1500 instead of 1400 (just an example) after 10 seasons. the semi is still making the same progress he normally would. the only difference is that the active player can fight regression a little better.
which, would make even more sense if this is tied together with the regression ideas people have been throwing around.
You are assuming all semi-actives hit the cap, though.
Also how robust do we have to make regression before people are satisfied? Not to mention all-time records will be all but impossible to hit if we continue to do that.
It seems all these suggestions are being made without any recognition of everything else that is involved in the league. We did that the first time we tweaked regression recently, we did that with the new update scale, and I feel like we are going to be doing that with these suggestions now.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
02-27-2019, 10:20 AM.bojo Wrote: like tables said, removing it helps simplify things and people are saying it only prevents roughly 10 points anyway.
As long as the PT team pushes a consistent amount of tpe each season it should be fine.
And for the semi actives who the entire cap was implemented to help? Now if they miss out on a PT they are boned. If their player has a bad season they are boned. That is TPE they have no chance to recuperate because the actives have no ceiling to hit.
The circumstance of there being so little extra TPE past the cap falls on either the HO for raising the cap in the first place or the PT team for not providing enough PTs to make the cap really matter. Removing it entirely just screws over the very people it was meant to help.
People are missing the point here imho, this isn't about inflation and whether 10 TPE are gonna impact that or not, it is about the gap between the TPE-whores and the rest of the league. The PT-Cap was originally implemented to make sure that the super actives don't pull away too much from everyone else and we still need it today for that very reason. I must say I find it a bit absurd that a signifcant portion of the league likes to bemoan that "things have become too tough for the semi-actives", but now that one of the protections for semi-actives is on the chopping block people can't wait to get rid of it.
Also I think it's quite inconsistent to implement an affiliation/welfare system because our PTs are "too hard", but then make it harder for everyone who doesn't get to use the affiliation system by forcing them to do even more of the PTs if they don't wanna miss out on points.
While I just recently came back to the league and the capped/uncapped TPE doesn't affect me just yet, I think the fundamental issue here is not with capped TPE, but with uncapped TPE. Extremely active users do not separate themselves from the semi-actives due to capped TPE, but with uncapped TPE opportunities they take part in because they're on the site for hours a day.
I have a suggestion that I think may combat a few problems and make the overall experience more enjoyable.
Why not remove this "Capped" and "Uncapped" and simply make ALL TPE earned in a given season capped? Right now we're capping TPE at 40 per season, but allowing users to gain an unlimited amount of uncapped TPE. By rolling every single TPE into the same category and simply capping the amount of TPE a player can earn in any given season will allow the cap to do its job. There are TPE discrepancies of 1000+ TPE, which can be a little ridiculous and very demoralizing for semi-active users, especially if it's going to take them upwards of 6 seasons to sniff top 6 duties on an SHL team. Here's a very simple example:
Let's say, on average, a user earns 110 TPE in a given season (capped + uncapped). Now, why not implement a cap such that all players can earn a maximum of 100 TPE in a given season (This is an arbitrary number for simplicity. This is way too low but for the purpose of the argument, I chose a round number). Now, every single TPE earned will go towards this cap. This INCLUDES weekly training, equipment, training camp, etc. Now, this may seem crazy at first, but fundamentally it acts in the way a proper TPE cap should act. This allows the extremely active users who are constantly taking part in TPE opportunities to easily reach that cap, whereas semi-active users may only hit 85-90 TPE earned in a given season. This allows for some sort of discrepancy and rewards the active members for being so active, but it also doesn't get so out of hand that even a semi-active user who does all capped TPE opportunities may not be able to catch up because of the abundance of uncapped TPE they were not able to gain because of the time restraint they have to dedicate to the league.
Now I'm sure this seems crazy to most, and a lot of the active users may not like this idea, however I believe it addresses the fundamental flaw the SHL has with the ability to earn TPE. The league only caps a portion of TPE, but that is not where the discrepancy is created. I just recently came back, and looking around the forum there are a ton of areas I have noticed that hand out additional uncapped TPE for users who can do whatever may be needed. I don't have the time to gain all these additional TPEs my colleagues can gain, and I'm sure it will mean that in my 2nd/3rd season, I will likely be 100+ TPE behind the top TPE earners in my draft class. While it's great to reward activity, it may also deter semi-active users from continuing with the league and trying to better themselves. Capping TPE will also mean regression will hit players harder, as it will not allow them to continually counteract the effects of regression every season (maybe for the first few seasons, but not for 7+), significantly reducing the amount of exhorbitant careers. This will increase the turnover of having players consistently recreating players, while allowing semi-active members to compete if they put in enough time.
Now, I used round numbers for the sake of my argument. If the "cap" is made in a way where only extremely active users may reach it, while not significantly putting a gap between themselves and the semi-actives, I believe it may fix a lot of problems. It rewards activity, but does not deter semi-activity, giving everyone a chance to be good and take advantage of TPE opportunities.
02-27-2019, 02:05 AMDangles13 Wrote: VHL is much more polished than SBA but I would agree, having something like that here would be amazing. I have no idea how to go about doing it though.
It's an SQL database with a set of PHP pages for display, input, and output of data. There's several people in the community with the knowhow to make it happen, although perhaps not the time. There are two questions- how does the simmer update the sim files from the database; and how does the database learn how much TPE each player has available to spend? I don't know how the VHL does the former, and there appears to be a reviewed honour system for entry of the latter.
That's all Greek to me. We would love to implement something like the Portal that VHL uses but it won't happen overnight. The updater job didn't disappear over there but rather became a much more relaxed link checking job.
Doing all PTs is like 10 min a week, if you cant do that then you dont deserve to have a player as good as someone who spends hours on the site every week tbh.
02-27-2019, 11:30 AM(This post was last modified: 02-27-2019, 11:33 AM by Shadowz1797.)
Compared to other sim leagues with similar development structures, the PT Cap I find to be pretty annoying as far as updating/keeping track. Additionally, it's not like removing a cap alters the amount of available TPE. If a clear PT plan were maintained, and it was known exactly how much TPE were up for grabs every season, then it doesn't matter if there's a cap or not.
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