Poll: Should we keep the PT cap?

Daco · 02-27-2019, 09:32 AM

After some discussion in Minnesota discord im in favor of removing the cap and escalating regression to represent a realistic NHL career. If you really fight it and are the Esa's , the Garbanzo's, you can be a third liner in your 22nd season. Note that should be as rare as Jagr. Maybe 1 person every few generations since that's who I based this off of he is an outlier. Have it escalate from 10 to higher % every season of regression.

This solves 2 problems, it frees up top lines on teams for new blood to get "star" minutes and opportunities. This makes the top tpe earners in their classes happy. You grandfather in people starting let's say next season, if they created by S47 they follow current regression and can chase all time records. This makes those people happy and no reason to complain. This also helps the mid-low tier players less active, who the PT cap is made for, since those top lines free up from the old folks and they get more significant minutes.

The whole idea is that you circulate players more by making a harsher realistic regression and as such you appease all 3 groups of people the current superstars, upcoming stars who want no PT cap so they can shine, and lower tier guys who want an opportunity to perform decently in the shl.

That's the discussion head office should be having imo.

Daco · 02-27-2019, 09:34 AM

02-27-2019, 09:32 AMDaco Wrote: After some discussion in Minnesota discord im in favor of removing the cap and escalating regression to represent a realistic NHL career. If you really fight it and are the Esa's , the Garbanzo's, you can be a third liner in your 22nd season. Note that should be as rare as Jagr. Maybe 1 person every few generations since that's who I based this off of he is an outlier. Have it escalate from 10 to higher % every season of regression.

This solves 2 problems, it frees up top lines on teams for new blood to get "star" minutes and opportunities. This makes the top tpe earners in their classes happy. You grandfather in people starting let's say next season, if they created by S47 they follow current regression and can chase all time records. This makes those people happy and no reason to complain. This also helps the mid-low tier players less active, who the PT cap is made for, since those top lines free up from the old folks and they get more significant minutes.

The whole idea is that you circulate players more by making a harsher realistic regression and as such you appease all 3 groups of people the current superstars, upcoming stars who want no PT cap so they can shine, and lower tier guys who want an opportunity to perform decently in the shl.

That's the discussion head office should be having imo.

Sean · 02-27-2019, 09:36 AM

02-27-2019, 09:32 AMDaco Wrote: After some discussion in Minnesota discord im in favor of removing the cap and escalating regression to represent a realistic NHL career. If you really fight it and are the Esa's , the Garbanzo's, you can be a third liner in your 22nd season. Note that should be as rare as Jagr. Maybe 1 person every few generations since that's who I based this off of he is an outlier. Have it escalate from 10 to higher % every season of regression.

This solves 2 problems, it frees up top lines on teams for new blood to get "star" minutes and opportunities. This makes the top tpe earners in their classes happy. You grandfather in people starting let's say next season, if they created by S47 they follow current regression and can chase all time records. This makes those people happy and no reason to complain. This also helps the mid-low tier players less active, who the PT cap is made for, since those top lines free up from the old folks and they get more significant minutes.

The whole idea is that you circulate players more by making a harsher realistic regression and as such you appease all 3 groups of people the current superstars, upcoming stars who want no PT cap so they can shine, and lower tier guys who want an opportunity to perform decently in the shl.

That's the discussion head office should be having imo.

I don't disagree with the sentiment but imo the PT cap does not accomplish what it's meant to do.

EDM All-Time Leader in Goals, Assists and Points

JSS · 02-27-2019, 09:38 AM

TPE whores when removing the TPE cap is brought up:

[Image: PLVFa.jpg]

don't remove the cap, pls and ty

Daco · 02-27-2019, 09:43 AM

@"TommySalami" I agree bud I mean that was my first post, just trying to think of a reasonable compromise because I believe this leagues problem is deeper than just the cap, so by compromising there maybe we can get people on board to solve the bigger issue being the old superstar tpe whore careers.

ArGarBarGar · 02-27-2019, 09:44 AM

Why would we compare this to the NHL when the entire format of sim leagues cannot emulate it?

When every single player takes 5-6 seasons to become a star you are already differing from what we see in the NHL.

What is the youngest player in the last 20 seasons to win a Dar/Mexico/Stevens/Kqrpotsov/etc.?

I don't know why the cap was raised and don't know why we want to remove it when the entire point of it is to help semi actives keep somewhat of a competitive pace with actives.

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
[Image: IeEV7Iv.png]

Daco · 02-27-2019, 09:46 AM

02-27-2019, 09:44 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: Why would we compare this to the NHL when the entire format of sim leagues cannot emulate it?

When every single player takes 5-6 seasons to become a star you are already differing from what we see in the NHL.

What is the youngest player in the last 20 seasons to win a Dar/Mexico/Stevens/Kqrpotsov/etc.?

I don't know why the cap was raised and don't know why we want to remove it when the entire point of it is to help semi actives keep somewhat of a competitive pace with actives.

Yes you just described the exact problem that needs to be addressed. That is precisely the issue. By regressing harder you move out old players and thus younger players can compete for trophies. Ideally you should be able to compete for MVP in 6 seasons.

That is literally my whole argument we have shifted too far away from the entire point of this league which is simulating real life hockey it's turned into an arcade albatross crank enough tpe and maybe someday you can win a trophy in 15 seasons. The PT cap is also not doing its job but the issue is like you just described.

It was most likely a gradual buildup of people acting in their own self interest making decisions to make the disparity between top tier and the rest bigger in order to promote their own chances of success and now it's gotten to this because no one said hey maybe we should rethink this inflation.

This is the other side of the coin and the key to balanced decision making, it seems it's been too much of a push in the other direction because the people who make the decisions and have the biggest voice clamor for more tpe disparity; well my argument is the realism side and in order for a league to be successful a commissioner needs to make a decision that achieves that balances not just caving to what everyone yells for you wind up with this situation @"Eggy216" @"Dangles13"

ArGarBarGar · 02-27-2019, 09:52 AM

02-27-2019, 09:46 AMDaco Wrote:
02-27-2019, 09:44 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: Why would we compare this to the NHL when the entire format of sim leagues cannot emulate it?

When every single player takes 5-6 seasons to become a star you are already differing from what we see in the NHL.

What is the youngest player in the last 20 seasons to win a Dar/Mexico/Stevens/Kqrpotsov/etc.?

I don't know why the cap was raised and don't know why we want to remove it when the entire point of it is to help semi actives keep somewhat of a competitive pace with actives.

Yes you just described the exact problem that needs to be addressed. That is precisely the issue. By regressing harder you move out old players and thus younger players can compete for trophies. Ideally you should be able to compete for MVP in 6 seasons

You missed my point.

The NHL has guys who are stars within 1-2 seasons. You cannot and will never have a system that can emulate that, and considering this is our own league I don't see why we should need to in the first place.

Also hard pass on upping regression again. That is just another way to hurt semi actives and give them even fewer seasons of relevance.

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
[Image: IeEV7Iv.png]

luke · 02-27-2019, 09:53 AM

Hi, TPE whore here ready to give my 2 cents. By the end of the season with the cap I “lost” around 7 tpe (usually tpe from a prediction and WFT, bc of milestones)
I see the benifits of putting a cap and not having a cap. If I have 7 extra tpe for 10 seasons that’s an extra 70 TPE before I hit regression, and with the cap in place I think my estimate would be ~2080-2160. And that’s me going balls deep on everything. So if you give me that extra 70, that definitely puts me in the 2100+ and maybe even 2200.

If you want to get rid of the cap, just reduce the base amount of TPE you get from predictions.

xDParK · 02-27-2019, 10:00 AM

Removing the cap can simplify updating, and hopefully allow us to implement an updating interface like the VHL has. If that's the case, I'd like to see us come up with a different (minor) way to help semi-actives keep a semi-decent pace with the TPE whores. How to do that? I'm not sure yet, but I'm sure we as a league can think of something.

But my main reason for getting rid of the cap is really only if it's holding us back from the VHL updating system. If not, then keeping the cap is fine tbh.

Mack · 02-27-2019, 10:09 AM

Fuck the cap!

ztevans · 02-27-2019, 10:11 AM

02-27-2019, 10:09 AMMack Wrote: Fuck the Caps!

I agree wait what

**.bojo** · 02-27-2019, 10:20 AM

like tables said, removing it helps simplify things and people are saying it only prevents roughly 10 points anyway.

As long as the PT team pushes a consistent amount of tpe each season it should be fine.

majesiu · 02-27-2019, 10:27 AM

Please increase regression percentages but only as soon as my player's retired, k?

Evok · 02-27-2019, 10:32 AM

Remove the caps and change the possible gained TPE. Cap only create problems with counting and then teaching the new players to cap their updates and etc. This is the only league with capped TPE. Just normalise the TPE and get rid of the cap, gonna be easier for everyone.

Poll: Should we keep the PT cap? You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
Keep it	29.06%	34	29.06%
Get rid of it	60.68%	71	60.68%
Don't care	10.26%	12	10.26%
Total		117 vote(s)	100%

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